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 My opinion of Descent|OS

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LinuXFroG



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PostSubject: My opinion of Descent|OS   Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:38 am

Running on LiveDVD. On first load you get a "Welcome" screen that really isn't all that welcoming. Akin to Linux Mint's Welcome screen without their "Minty Freshness" bs.

So I click on "Try" and it loads fairly quick. Looks are decent. But nothing to write home to mom about. Descent|OS sees my built-in Atheros wireless. (but what distro doesn't these days? ) I key in my password. Signal is strong and stable. Unlike some distros. Pro point 2.

I try to find Firefox, which of course is my browser of choice and it's no where to be seen. Chromium is installed as default. No biggie, no point loss in my mind, Firefox is an easy install or is it?

So I bring up terminal:
Code:
sudo apt-get install firefox


Firefox installs with no issues. Or are there? Firefox is no where to be found. Start searching around in:
Code:
/usr/lib/

and nothing. Load up synaptic and try that way. Install goes well. But still no Firefox listed. Go back into:
Code:
/usr/lib

and there it is. Add it to the menu. Now I have Firefox in a convenient place. Con point 2.

Why 2? You shouldn't have to putz around that much just to get an app installed, unless of course it isn't a normal app. Then ok.

System appears to be fast and stable. Pro point 3.

Then I go into "Sound and Video". Vlc is installed as default. Good enough for me. But what's that? Exaile? Yup. Exaile. No Rhythmbox. No Clementine. No Banshee. But there's Exaile. If anyone here knows me, or about me, then you have read some of my reviews over the years and you know my feelings about Exaile:

Quote :
"Exaile is a good try at a music player, but falls short and should NEVER be installed as default. If the user wants it, then let them install it. Not have it forced upon anyone."


Con point 3.

My personal results:

Pros: 5

Cons: 5

Final thoughts:
While Descent|OS seems to be fast, stable and probably a reliable distro, it is based more on what the Dev wants for a personal distro, then anything else. Not to be too critical on it though, it is a new distro and not a huge following yet. But maybe soon it will get a nice user base and the users can help with ideas that the Dev can use to make it better.

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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:32 pm

Fair review, definitely. The firefox problem is kind of weird since I actually had firefox installed back in version 2 (I switched to chromium because firefox's self-update wouldn't work), so that's quite odd since it's using the exact same base as before. I'll have to look into that one. Exaile seemed like a good idea at the time, since most of the other distros seem to like to use the big ones, and since this isn't trying to be like them, I went with Exaile.
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LinuXFroG



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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:33 pm

Maybe switch to Clementine. It actually succeeds where Exaile fails. Just my 2ยข. As for Firefox, I don't know an easy fix for it. As for the self update, I always disable it myself. It's fair to useless to begin with.

Maybe you could switch to IceCat, Midori or even Dillo. IceCat may have the same issue as Firefox though. With Dillo and Midori, the ISO would be lighter. Then users can install their browser of choice.

Just a few ideas.

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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:23 pm

I'll keep that in mind when I make version 3. I was, originally going to make a 64-bit version of 2.1 when I got the proper hardware (I was only 32-bit for a looong time), and now that I have my 64-bit CPU, it makes more sense to try to go along with the actual releases seeing that MATE is out and I can have more current packages. I do like Midori and I almost put clementine in there, but I figured I should keep it all GTK. As for Firefox, I think it was a by-product of my manual update of firefox in the previous minor release before 2.1, and when it was removed it probably caused all sorts of problems I couldn't see.
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LinuXFroG



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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:35 pm

Hmmm. It might have, maybe should have run Bleachbit after. I personally would stick with an x86 edition, unless of course you want to release two editions. I have a desktop that has an FX-6100, but I will never run an x64 edition distro. Too much hype on x64 distros with little to no pay off, if you know what I mean.

As for MATe, well, it isn't bad, but it will end up failing now that Clem has created Cinnamon.

Quote :
New members are not allowed to post external links or emails for 7 days.
Please contact the forum administrator for more information.


Tried to post the link for you, but wasn't allowed.

Might be a much better choice in the long run, if that's the route you want to take.

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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:44 pm

It's either that or XFCE. XFCE seems logical, mate seems cool. I can differentiate myself a lot with MATE, rather than make a xubuntu respin.
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LinuXFroG



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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:46 am

I wouldn't go xfce. But Cinnamon is always getting updated. I have used MATE and Cinnamon and the results are not final yet in my mind, but Cinnamon is leading.

Cinnamon will continue to grow, MATE will become stagnant.
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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:58 pm

The problem of using cinnamon is that if I used it, I would be making a Mint clone. I feel much better using mate or xfce because it still allows me to truly create something different, and that's what I'm trying to do.
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LinuXFroG



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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:27 pm

You have to think about the long haul. If you go MATE now, are you capable of the ongoing dev of it when it goes stagnant and never gets updated?

Also, just because Clem of Mint is the dev of Cinnamon, doesn't mean your distro will be a Mint clone. Use your own theme, menu and icon set and your golden. You don't have to use MintMenu.

As for xfce, it isn't a bad DE, but it isn't up to par with Gnome 2 yet.

Just food for thought here.

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McLovin



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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Tue May 01, 2012 9:51 pm

While I can understand all the points made here so far, I do have to disagree about Gnome-2 being dead, far from it in my opinion, as Debian Squeeze is still running it, and Debian will be supporting G2 for some time still, as will CentOS, and RHEL, as well as Ubuntu 10.04 until 2013. I personally prefer G2 over any other DE, and continue to use it as my main DE, on a custom Debian based respin of my own, that I start with a Debian stable base, and then compile my own kernel, and updated apps, and maintain myself. There is also a new distro coming, that is currently in RC, SolusOS, (solusos.com), that is using Gnome-2 as the default desktop, and will use it for as long as it possibly can. As for GTK-3 apps not running on G2, that is not correct, as I use GTK3 apps on my G2 desktop on a regular basis. The issue I have with Cinnamon, is that it is Gnome-3, reworked, (I am a former Mint dev team member), and although done so to be as much like G2 as possible, it is still G3.

Mate is a very good alternative as well, and is getting a wide following by users such as myself, and is being used by a growing number distros. Arch has a very good implementation of Mate, and LinuxMint has just released a version of LMDE, (LinuxMint Debian Edition), that has it preinstalled, along side Cinnamon as a choice for the default DE. Also, Mate is far from stagnant, it has vary active development in both the Arch community, as well as the Debian, (or .deb based), community.

I do agree that XFCE is a good desktop, but it is not up to the level of G2 in terms of polish, and fit and finish. I hope that you will continue to use Gnome-2 as the desktop, and I am hoping to see a 64bit version of this distro to install, and see if maybe I can find a new main install, but for the time being, I will dl and install the 32bit version, and try it out, and maybe compile a high memory kernel so I can make use of all my ram, while still being on a 32bit system to run this release.


Last edited by McLovin on Tue May 01, 2012 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : missed thoughts :scratch:)
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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm

Hey, welcome to the forum there. I agree with you whole-heartedly on MATE, and I'm going to continue using it for DescentOS for the forseeable future. SolusOS is okay, but I'm not exactly trying to fit the audience he is either, so I'm feeling like I can get comfortable carving out my own little slice of userbase. Especially with Windows XP going out and all those older, yet still decent computers are going to need an OS they can use without changing their interface too much.
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McLovin



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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Tue May 01, 2012 11:26 pm

Well, I was actually hoping that you were gonna stick with G2, but mate is also a very good DE to run with, and is really getting to a point that it is a true viable G2 like alternative, as it uses the same basic set, (it is more or less G2, but some things have been changed and updated). I am a bit more of a fan of SolusOS than alot of ppl, as I am (or at least was until some recent things) a dev for it, if there is anything I can do to maybe help out, testing, kernel compiling, or anything else let me know, I am always eager to help out in getting a good distro up and running, and gaining a good following, (I have done quite a bit for LinuxMint promotion, as well development on various things, including Lubuntu, if you want to know specifics, yo can PM me and I will fill you in on details). I am thinking of maybe using your base as a base a new respin of my own to make my own personal distro, (just for me), but am willing to put my work and whatever I may build back into this distro.

P.S., If I were doing this myself, I would stay with the Ubuntu base, and do what you can to keep it as pure G2/Mate (whichever you decide to stay with) as possible, there are ways to keep apps running on GTK-2, and keep the appearance as uniform as possible.


Last edited by McLovin on Tue May 01, 2012 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Tue May 01, 2012 11:28 pm

Yeah! I welcome any help I can possibly get, that's for sure! Just PM me what you're best at and then we'll talk there.
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kogychan



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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:33 am

Hi and sorry for my bad english since I'm french.

Well, I'm not a Linux specialist but I think I already used it enough in order to give an opinion on DescentOS.

Recently I tested many distros by using Wmware Workstation (Debian 6 / Magea2/SimplyMeptis/Fubuntu/Linux Mint 13 Mate/CentOS6/Voyager12/Fedora7/Mandriva2011/LinuxMint Debian Edition/OpenSuse2/Ubuntu 12.04 Gnome/Kubuntu 12.04/KahelOS/ChakraLinux/Aperture/EmmaLinux/MatriuxKrypton/Backtrack5/Pinguy/SuperOS/UltimateOS/Archbang/Bodhi/Chameleon/Crunchbang/ctlArch/ZorinOS/SynapseOS/Netrunner/Salix/Sabayon 7 XFCE/ Sabayon 7 Gnome/PCLinuxOS/PCBSD9/SolusOS2/Koroora Gnome/ComiceOS/PureOS/SiductionOS/DreamStudio/CeltiX and of course DescentOS (today). And Many others which failed like Rosa, Anansi, Nota etc... They failed because of many bugs during installation, displaying....

Standard conf is Installation from LIVE ISO / 20Gb Disk / 1Gb Memory / Wired internet access thru proxy settings / 1680x1050(16:10) / Keyb Fr / 1 Proc 3,8Ghz

What I can understand :
- None or partial french language support
- Manual Disk partitionning thru GPARTED or similar
- Asked display resolution not avalaible but similar proposed
- Difficulties in configuring proxies
....

What I cannot understand :
- Forced accounts and passwords during installation
- Password settings being asked before keyboard setting !!!! (that's the worst)
- Deficient proxies settings (aka "system wide applied" but not working at all)..I'm ok for instance to have to set manualy the proxy setting in Firefox despite of system wide proxy, but package update not working isn't acceptable.
- Screen resolution impossible to set or not being saved after reboot (even if set as default)
...

What I don't care about :
- Graphical environnement, Gnome/KDE, LXDE, XFCE .... even if I must confess that I have a preference for Gnome
- Performance or Memory usage, except for Mandriva2011 which was really too slow on my virtual machine
- Installed software

Well a typical Enterprise environnement test. And I have to say that DescentOS is part of the bests. Ok all the ressources haven't been translated into french, but Installation, automatic disk partitionning, keyboard settings, account creation, display resolution settings and System Wide Proxy settings works perfectly without any problems. I would say the same concerning distos like Zorin OS, or KahelOS (never could have french Keyboard even if it's displayed as Azerty layout in the settings) or Fubuntu (display bugs...) Chakra etc...

Basically Debian Based system (Ubuntu included) combined with Gnome are providing the best balanced experience concerning installation, easy settings, stability... KDE is also good of course but LXDE and XFCE are maybe fast but most of the time harder to set (Resolution, proxies...).
But I also liked a lot Opensuse2 (Yast is great, despite of not following system wide proxy settings by having its own settings), Centos6 and especially Fedora7 are perfect. I had hardest time with Slackware and Gentoo based distribs, but Sabayon for Gentoo and especially Salix for Slackware are great.

DescentOS would definitely enter in my top 10 distros considering my constraints. As McLovin said, i'd stay on Ubuntu/Gnome2 if I were you. You did a great job.
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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:34 pm

Well, thanks for the review. As for the future, I'm trying to gain new ideas every day, but I really do want to go to a regular Debian base, as I prefer working in it than Ubuntu.
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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:31 pm

I just started using this distro I like where it going but I would like to see see some built in support for wine as im a heavy pc gamer. I have no problem installing it my self but would like it if you make a have it already installed maybe make use of playonlinux http://www.playonlinux.com/en/


If you want a good im program to include look no further than instantbird http://instantbird.com/

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PostSubject: my ideal OS   Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:49 pm

After using PC's for almost 20 years, and C64, ZX Spectrum, Enterprise 128k before the PC era, I have collected my thoughts about the ideal desktop OS for me.

1. It should be almost invisible, serve the user the way (s)he likes it. The more real choice is the better. The developper should not try to force users to change their way/habits. I really like the background philosophy of Gentoo.

2. Personally, I regard eye candies as obstacles. They move away my focus from doing my job. At work, now I have to use windows7. Managed to tweak it to look almost like a windows 2003 server edition. No background picture, menu delay set to 0, aero switched off.. At home, the only 'eye-candy' wich is running on my desk is weather indicator applet and clock applet. I used to go to work by bike, so I need to know the current wheather, and I shouldn't arrive too late.

3.a, Application management- starting apps: the fastest way to start an app is to use an assimetrical search tree. A simmetrical tree with 10 nodes per level and 4 levels enables to select between 10^4=10000 app, and all of them is just 4 clicks away. The average time to start an app is 4 clicks. An assimetrical search tree with direct launch icons and nodes mixed on every level gives an average access time below 4 clicks. Obviously the most frequently used app launchers should be placed on level 1 of the search tree.
Possible realisations of this assimetrical search tree:
- desktop icons, docks, task panel icons, tiles (in tile based DE's) and the find menu for level 1 app launching
- launcher menu with subfolders organised in categories & subcategories

3.b, Application management: handling already running apps: need to have a taskbar on a panel showing the actually running apps. The alt+tab methode is inefficient with lots of apps running.

4. It should be stable (including protection from viruses etc.) and efficient (resource friendly, fast and cheap).

5. The OS is basically an API with some basic tools to run compatible applications. It's not useful without apps.

***

That's why I was using Ubuntu & gnome2 desktop since 2006. At job, it was winXP (classic view) + top panel with icons. Now it is Win7, tweaked to look similarly.
In 2012, the old repos for Ubuntu 10.10 were closed, so - according to point 5 above - I had to upgrade.
I really hardly tried to like Unity or Gnome3, but failed.

Here are my personal points about the Unity disaster:
1. The top panel doesn't have an autohide option. It is always there while watching movies or playing games at full screen. Annoying.
2. Dash doesn't recognise enough alias names. For example, the keyword "system upgrade" should return the update manager, but it gave me "no match found". It could be good with a more sophisticated alias database. Or at least better, then the unity sidebar. Smile
3. Almost no applets for top panel or sidebar.
4. Unity solution to know wich apps are running: scroll trough the nameless icons on the sidebar, and find out where are the small gray triangles. Check their application names one by one, and remember them.
5. starting apps from sidebar: names are shown only when you hover the mouse over the icon. Scroll a few pages, and check the application names for every suspicious icon. Click on the right one. A menu based solution paralel with a sidebar would be faster.
6. Instead of real full screen option, window titles and menues are going to the top panel. Even when the actual window isn't running in full screen mode. So the mouse have to travel more. It's just time consuming.
7. Runs slower, then Ubuntu 10.10 & gnome2 and uses more ram.
8. Every user is different. The number of happy users depends on the freedom of choice offered. More is the better. Unity was first released without any option. Now, with 12.04 the situation is better, but isn't good.

So I vote for a desktop environment, where
- all the running apps are shown on a panel separately from launch bar/menu
- application launcher menues are avalaible (as an option)
- quick launch sidebar is an option
- there is a real fullscreen mode
- resources are conserved for user apps

I really liked Gnome2. Gnome3 fallback (aka Gnome classic) looks like a broken gnome2. No applets etc.
Xfce implementation on Ubuntu is way too fat, and doesn't look so good. The latest systemrescueCD (x86 gentoo +xfce) looks much better, I love it, and uses around 66 MB. LXDE - some customizations are missing, otherwise great. Enlightement- seems to be slower (tested on Bodhi linux), then mate/xfce/lxde. KDE- resource heavy, too much eye candies.
Windows manager only- level 1 app launchers (desktop icons), taskbar etc. are missing.

The closest matches to the Gnome2 experience are MATE (gnome2 fork) and Cinnamon.
After an update to my Ubuntu 12.04, cinnamon crashed, so I have picked up MATE as my default desktop environment. Also trimmed down services, so the idle system ram usage used to be below 200 MB.

I will get a new HDD for Christmas, so I have the opportunity to make a clean install. I started to download live CD's, and trying them in Virtual box. I have an outdated desktop pc (Sempron 2800+ 1.6GHz single core, 1 GB DDR400, IDE+SATA1 connections), so all candidates must be installed on a virtal machine with 512 MB.

The ideal new OS has the following features:
- linux: good TCO, point 4 above
- Debian based, access to debian/ubuntu/mint repos: tons of apps, point 5 above, plus I am familiar with Ubuntu wich is based on Debian
- must be fast on my desktop - point 4
- a lightweight, gnome2 like desktop environment must be avalaible from repos, MATE/gnome2 preferred (point 1-3)

I have just tried out Descent|OS. Fits my points 1-5. After killing Docky and Launcher, it looks like my installed system. Only the colors/themes are different.
Resource usage is also similar.

So now I have the following options about my future desktop OS:
- Descent|OS after some customization
- Lubuntu and MATE desktop, lxde as fallback option
- AntiX + MATE, icewm as fallback session
- Galpon MiniNo 2.0
- HDD cloning to keep my Ubuntu 12.04 +MATE

Descent OS requires little effort to make it almost identical to my present OS. Lubuntu is mainstream with lot of developers. AntiX and Galpon MiniNo is more resource friendly (~40 MB and 64 MB RAM usage with default settings, Lubuntu+icewm iirc ~ 110 MB). My Ubuntu had a clean install last time in 2009. Some lib packages are depending on Unity, so I can't uninstall Unity. There are a lot of other garbages and hacks made for previous OS versions. Probably I will go with Descent|OS.
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PostSubject: Re: My opinion of Descent|OS   Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:15 pm

Well, I built Descent|OS on a sempron box with 1gb initially, so if I can build it, you can use it Razz
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